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Posted by bitsnbobs on 20-Sep-2010 14:00 Report
What are 'Created Stones'
Jewellery sellers, just wondering if one was to list fashion jewellery that had 'faux' stones - so not real rubies, diamonds or sapphires etc . .. Are these fake type of crystal/stones in fashion jewellery  what is called 'created stones' as they are not the real thing?
 
Replied by richbartim on 20-Sep-2010 14:06 (Ref 2200817) Report
Created stones are real stones like emeralds ect only created in a Lab and are clear compered to genuine stones that are naturally formed and may have inclusions which are grit? in the stone as it formed. not the same as faux stones.
Replied by richbartim on 20-Sep-2010 14:07 (Ref 2200819) Report
created stones in a lab are made similar to natural stones only a lot faster as they are controlled. as far as I know.
Replied by richbartim on 20-Sep-2010 14:11 (Ref 2200822) Report
everything2.com/title/lab-created+stones

The biggest controversy over lab-created stones is due to misinformation. Lab-created stones, not to be confused with synthetic stones, have the same physical, molecular, and optical properties as their natural counterparts, except they are virtually flawless. On the other hand, synthetic stones are dyed for desired appearance. Except for diamonds, it is less expensive to grow precious stones in the laboratory than mine or pan them, since plenty of labor costs go into mining or panning a stone barely close to the same quality as a lab-created one.

Most natural gems cost ten to twenty times more than their lab-grown counterparts (usually ruby, emerald, and sapphire), but neither is better than each other. It depends on whether gem rarity and natural beauty are prized more than flawlessness and pureness.
Replied by issabella10 on 20-Sep-2010 14:12 (Ref 2200823) Report
Faux is also different then created stones. Because created gems are quite expensive to make it's unlike costume jewellery will have them . Crystals such as Swarovski Crystal beads and cut crystals also unfortunately have their fair share of 'fakes' .

There's a huge amount of fake Amethyst , Citrine and other type of 'gems' floating around.  Faux stones are not created stones.
Replied by bitsnbobs on 20-Sep-2010 14:14 (Ref 2200826) Report
Thankyou for the replies, the help is very much appreciated :-)
Replied by issabella10 on 20-Sep-2010 14:21 (Ref 2200828) Report
Crystal is often used to describe jewellery with stones that have an AB appearance Aurora Borealis (they reflect light) (like the brooch) Crystal like this also may contain lead which gives them a heavy feel as well as clarity and a higher quality.

Cut glass type of crystal are often just one colour and have the look of glass . You get used to the differences when you've handled them etc.

My first intro to the world of fake gems wasn't a pleasant one after a large purchase on eBay from what I thought was a genuine seller , hell of a quick way to learn to pick the real thing lol.
Replied by bitsnbobs on 20-Sep-2010 14:22 (Ref 2200829) Report
mmmm me thinks 'fashion jewellery' faux crystals are coloured plastic LOL but they look good anyway
Replied by manuteapearls on 20-Sep-2010 14:36 (Ref 2200830) Report
I would call them 'diamonte'.

Diamonte does not have to be white - my gran had heaps of sparkly jewellery in different colours and she called them all Diamonte.

Manu  :-)
Replied by hobals on 20-Sep-2010 19:58 (Ref 2200965) Report
Hi
Created stones are just that- made in a Lab
Real stones are made my mother nature

2 completely different things
Real are real & quite expensive
Created are expensive but nowhere near the price of a real stone
Like Cubic Zirconia & Diamonds

a created emerald is not the same price or value as a real emerald

Created are good stones but they are not real and are no where near the price of the real thing

There's some created stones that are poor quality too - just like real stones can be poor quality

Faux mean fake - and to me, this suggests a stone that's not an emerald but is green
a stone that's not a sapphire but is blue
a stone that's not a diamond but is a white colour

That's what I would classify faux & these would be cheap stones
( cheaper than man made / lab made & a lot cheaper than real )

If they are in fashion jewellery- then they are in the right section
Fine jewellery is for items with the base metal a  precious metal - Gold or Silver ( real solid gold base )
Not brass with gold layered etc

a lot of lab made stones are in sterling silver jewellery - rarely in solid gold
( but they are sometimes)
some jewellery has both- real diamond & a man made emerald - in real gold ( so, that would be fine jewellery)

I believe admin are setting up the jewellery section so there's no if's or but's as to what is what
Having the tags- so the base metal is present- is a fantastic idea - IMO

It lets buyers know the base metal is real gold or real silver- not plated / dipped / layered/ ionised / filigree / ( I know I've missed about a thousand- but you get the drift)
all those annoying little words to make a buyer think it's gold- when it's really stainless steel or brass
( if that's the base metal- it should be in fashion )

so- man made / lab made is a good quality stone - not as good as the real thing but nothing "cheap"

Hope that helps
cheers :-)
Replied by carbonprincess on 21-Sep-2010 21:26 (Ref 2201463) Report
The correct term is 'imitation'.

A synthetic or lab created stone is one that has a direct natural counterpart - with all the physical, chemical and optical properties of the natural equivalent (within normal limits). Synthetic stones are not totally clean and are easily identified by someone with gemmological training or experience (under a loupe or microscope) by their unique inclusions. These can be things like flux from the melt that created the stone and platinum filings from the vessel in which they were made. 

I could go on, but you get the picture.
Replied by bitsnbobs on 22-Sep-2010 12:12 (Ref 2201671) Report
Thanks everyone i have learnt heaps !
Replied by rahotep on 23-Sep-2010 13:02 (Ref 2202224) Report
 Hi to all

As a Gemmologist I can tell you that the correct terminology by International agreements and law is Synthetic,.

All treatments to stones, must all be told to the client purchasing, and it is an offensive under law to call stones, that are not Natural, anything but synthetic.

Yes you can say man made, but you must prefix this with synthetic.  If if was not grown by nature, then plain and simple it is synthetic, no matter what fancy name you call it by.  

You can not call a stone cultured, as this only applies to organic substances like pearls.  

So anyone who sells you a cultured or man made stone, or a faux stone, must tell you it is synthetic. 
Regards, 
Rahotep
Replied by carbonprincess on 23-Sep-2010 13:25 (Ref 2202243) Report
 Hi Rahotep,

I am also a working gemmologist and with all due respect, I disagree with you slightly on this point. There is a real distinction between synthetic and imitation gems.

A synthetic gem has a direct natural counterpart and an imitation does not. This is the terminology taught in gem school and used in the trade. 

Often imitations are made to look like another more desirable gem, but bear no intrinsic relation to the actual gem. So the example of these 'faux crystals'- presumably made of glass or paste would fall in the category of 'imitation'. You could add the qualifier of man made if you like, but that is implied anyway.

A synthetic stone can also be used as an imitation. Often you will see synthetic Spinel substituted for gems such as sapphires. Whilst it is a genuine synthetic stone, in this case it is also an imitation.

Another good example is  diamond, synthetic diamonds and cubic zirconia. Cubic Zirconia is often used as an imitation diamond, however,  only actual synthetic diamonds (with all the chemical, optical and physical properties of the real thing) can be so called and of course an untreated diamond can rightly be described as a natural unenhanced diamond. To describe a Cubic Zirconia as a synthetic diamond is against the CIBJO, ICA, AGTA and US Federal Trade Commission (among other bodies) guidelines.

I have been concerned about a couple of entries in this thread, but didn't want to seem picky, however, using the correct terminology and understanding what it means is vital in this industry.

Kind regards,

CP
Replied by manuteapearls on 23-Sep-2010 14:47 (Ref 2202283) Report
A cultured pearl is NOT synthetic!!

It just means that Man has inserted the Irritant into the oyster, for the animal to lay pearl layers around.

It is the animal that does the work and the pearls are REAL.

Manu  :-/
Replied by carbonprincess on 23-Sep-2010 16:50 (Ref 2202333) Report
 It's ok Manu, I was thinking about coloured gemstones, not your babies.

I think it is safe to say that biological gems fall into a whole other category. It is a different process, yes man intervenes, but you are quite right, the oyster still does the work, not an autoclave or a platinum crucible or whatever.

Peace m'lady

EDIT - who actually said pearls were synthetic?
Replied by rahotep on 23-Sep-2010 23:23 (Ref 2202549) Report
 Hi Carbonprincess

As a working gemmologist I disagree, anything that imitates the real thing and is not the real thing is still a synthetic whether it be glass or not. I suggest that you check with CIBJO  whose authority Australia comes under. 

As for cubic zirconia, it is synthetic cubic zirconia, as real cubic zirconia, although very rare, does exist.  I suggest you consult the text books. 

 On a valuation you must put SYNTHETIC whether it be glass or any other imitation.  You may also state in brackets that it is glass etc, but the word synthetic must appear.  And even laboratory made diamonds must be prefixed synthetic diamonds as they were produced by man and not by nature. 

Unfortunately, I have noticed of late that too many persons are fudging the rules, I am not accusing you of doing this, I am saying that synthetic is synthetic, if and when it is man made. 
Regards
Rahotep
Replied by carbonprincess on 24-Sep-2010 08:42 (Ref 2202687) Report


Hi Rahotep, 

I do take your point, of course all man made material is synthetic and I did forget about the CZ issue, should have said GGG, YAG or some other diamond imitant. However, if you describe CZ as a synthetic diamond you are in breach as genuine synthetic diamonds are very different from a CZ. You have to call it an imitation or man made diamond imitant or possibly synthetic diamond imitant (but that is potentially misleading). My point was addressing the nomeclature for the material that was being discussed by the OP. I did consult the CIBJO rules when confirming my point, but perhaps we are talking about two different things. 

I was saying that yes, it is synthetic material BUT the material in question is a man made imitant, that is, it is attempting to appear like some sort of gemstone. Probably less confusing if you qualify synthetic with the word sapphire or whatever is appropriate. This would be read as a synthetic sapphire that has the same physical, chemical and optical properties as a natural sapphire (within normal limits).

Now, if you then took that sapphire - a colour change purple (why they pick that colour I have no clue) and sold it as an imitation Alexandrite, then you would have a synthetic sapphire Alexandrite imitation. The point being that an imitation stone does not have a direct natural counterpart - that is the distinction I was trying to make. And in this case, whilst it is a synthetic stone, it is also imitating a very different stone.

I see (and was taught by the GAA) a distinction between imitation/man made and synthetic in the way I have described. Taking the definition from P.G. Read's "Dictionary of Gemmology" he confirms that synthetics have direct natural counterparts and "synthetically grown products that have no counterpart in nature are more accurately described as man made".

As for my own business practices. I use fair trade diamonds and untreated ethically mined coloured gems, all with traceable origins. There is no WAY in the world that I would mislead a customer, as my whole business model is based on transparency.

Also, as you well know, registered gemmologists do have extensive ethical obligations and your FGAA would be whisked away pretty darn quickly if you were to violate the code.If I have been vague about anything it is because I am drawing from my studies, not my own working life. 

Again, another misunderstanding that comes down to semantics. 

CP
Replied by manuteapearls on 24-Sep-2010 10:56 (Ref 2202761) Report
You can not call a stone cultured, as this only applies to organic substances like pearls.  

So anyone who sells you a cultured or man made stone, or a faux stone, must tell you it is synthetic.


Maybe I read it wrongly, but it sounds like 'cultured' means 'fake' in this paragraph/sentence. Just wanted to put the record straight.

'Twasn't you, dearest Princess.

BTW, don't you owe me an email?

Manu  :-)
Replied by carbonprincess on 24-Sep-2010 13:25 (Ref 2202847) Report
Reading back on what I have written, I realise that I have used gem shorthand and may have caused confusion. Each time I said 'synthetic' my brain was adding 'gemstone' but I didn't write it. Obviously the word synthetic on it's own can have a different connotation.

I do apologise if my earlier posts were unclear. I was referring to the gemmological definition of 'synthetic gemstones' not all synthetic material. In my course notes it is divided into 'synthetic' and 'imitation'  (and 'treated' and 'biological' etc. etc) so am used to thinking of it this way.

Sorry, it's been bugging me.

CP
Replied by rahotep on 28-Sep-2010 06:48 (Ref 2205220) Report
 Hi Manuteapearls

If anyone describes a man made gem material, except cultured pearls as cultured, they are breaking the law. They must must say synthetic, or they can say synthetic man made etc. But as carbonprincess also states, you can not call a cubic zirconia a man made diamond, as it is not, and has nothing to do with diamonds. 

Regards, 
Rahotep
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