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Posted by magnolia134 on 21-Feb-2012 16:23 Report
ISBNs
Can someone please explain ISBNs? Why are some 10 digits, some are 13 digits and some books have both? For books with both, which is it preferable to include in the listing tag?
 
Replied by ellencol on 21-Feb-2012 16:26 (Ref 2333263) Report
I got this from google

Both 10 and 13 are based on the same ISBN number. ISBN-13 is based on ISBN-10, has prefix 978 and recalculated check digit. 

The reason for it is that ISBN agency is running out of numbers and is going to introduce new 979 prefixes in a year or so.

Both ISBN-10 and ISBN-13 are the same ISBN number just in two different forms.

If I am listing books and both numbers are on the book I put both in the listing tag.

Not sure if thats any help to you
Ellen
Replied by magnolia134 on 21-Feb-2012 16:43 (Ref 2333270) Report
Thanks Ellen.
Replied by straybooksoz on 21-Feb-2012 20:54 (Ref 2333315) Report
If it has a 10 I only list the 10. Some say you should list both, but generally the 13 only appears on the back cover; the publishing page has the true ISBN, which in those cases is almost always the 10.
Replied by magnolia134 on 21-Feb-2012 21:20 (Ref 2333316) Report
OK Pete - that is what I have done. Been through my bookcases and have listed a whole stack of books - more to come. I am aware that selling books is VERY difficult, but better to be listed than sitting here taking up space.
Replied by castanets on 21-Feb-2012 23:55 (Ref 2333322) Report
This is from thread 447230 (and an even earlier one):

I have very severe reservations about ISBNs. You'll find them in my post in another Books thread. They are a minefeld but shouldn't be. If you're selling books, especially collectables, you must be utterly honest. There are four categories:

Pre-ISBN. If your book is pre-ISBN, you should not include any ISBN that was allocated to a later edition.

10-digit ISBN only. Quote it. It's a genuine idenitifier for the book you're selling. Never ever convert it to 13-Digit.

Both 10-digit and 13-digit ISBNs. Quite possible. And if they both appear on the book you should quote both.

13-digit ISBN only. Yes, quote it. Never ever try to convert it back to 10-digit.

ISBNs are sometimes identifiers for first editions and the like. They can make the difference between $5.00 and $5,000.00. There are some "booksellers" who know that all too well.

S.
Replied by magnolia134 on 22-Feb-2012 09:54 (Ref 2333337) Report
castanets - thank you for the clarification. I am not selling collectable books, just recent novels, so the 10 digit code that appears on the flyleaf will do just fine. I noticed quite a few of the books had both 10 and 13 digit numbers on the back cover (as noted by Pete), and wondered why.
Replied by magnolia134 on 22-Feb-2012 10:04 (Ref 2333338) Report
castanets - just reread the thread from last November, and that provoked another question. If a book is say, the paperback version of a hard cover, printed a year or so later, does the ISBN change? (I don't have one of each to compare). And as an extension of this, if subsequent reprints are made in paperback, what happens to the ISBN then?
Replied by castanets on 23-Feb-2012 23:32 (Ref 2333516) Report
Oh golly, I hardly know where to begin. I can tell you what should happen, but I can also tell you that quite often it doesn’t.
If you publish a book, you’re required by law to assign an ISBN. You have to register as a publisher (which costs you money) and you buy an ISBN or a block of ISBNs (which costs you more money). One of my areas of specialising is family history. Quite often, a family historian will have a book produced at their own expense for, say, a family reunion and there might be as few as 100 copies. They’ll probably be sold at cost to family members. Some family historians choose to have their books very nicely produced and it might cost $75.00 each to produce such a small edition. If you register for an ISBN, you might have to add about another $5.00 or more per copy. Then you can add on legal deposit (two copies that you have to post off, at your own expense). It all adds up and it’s no wonder that some people “forget”.
So, if there’s no ISBN, don’t worry about it.
Piratepete has made a perfectly good point that, for most buyers, ISBNs are irrelevant. You just want a copy of a book to read and you don’t want to pay $19.95 for the new paperback in your local bookshop so you get online and buy a second-hand one for $5.00. I hate to say that but it’s real life. All of us sellers have had buyers in Meekatharra and Upotipotpon and Lord-knows-where and these buyers are not people who can just “pop out” to browse in their local bookshop.
BUT (there’s always a but), for some book collectors, the ISBN is not only important, it can be vital. And it can make the difference between a sale and no sale, and your credibility and no credibility.
I want to buy a book. I’m only interested in the first edition and I know very well that the ISBN is 0002216574. But there are booksellers on the web selling this “first edition” with ISBN 9780002216579. Now what am I to make of that? If it has that ISBN, it’s not the first edition. Simple. And if you’re the bookseller, you go on my list of people not to buy from, people who can’t be trusted. It’s quite possible that the bookseller might have made a “mistake” and it really is the first edition. But if the bookseller has made that mistake, can I trust the description? That “very good in very good d/j”. Is that a “mistake” as well? Nah…
Here it might be pertinent to point out that sellers would be wise to acknowledge that collectors – buyers – are almost certainly more knowledgeable in their own areas of expertise than we are. No seller can be an expert in all areas of book collecting.
At least we can get the ISBN right...
Replied by castanets on 24-Feb-2012 02:56 (Ref 2333523) Report

…Furthermore

The simple answer to your question is: publishers are required to assign a new ISBN to all new “editions”. It’s almost impossible to give a definitive answer because even reputable publishers get it wrong. We’d also need to go into what constitutes an “edition” (which needs a separate ISBN) and what is an “impression” (which doesn’t). It should be clear though, that if a publisher brings out a hardback first edition and then a paperback follows a year later, they will have different ISBNs.

Let’s say it’s a bestseller: the hardback goes into several reprints, all in the same format and you see on the back of the title page a listing of “third impression, fourth impression…”. They can all have the same ISBN. The paperback is in a different format and must have its own ISBN. But the paperback can be reprinted many times and, if nothing changes, the paperbacks will have the same ISBN.

Needless to say, it doesn’t always work like that.

Lots of people around Australia will know the Tasmanian little yellow book by Ian Brand Port Arthur 1830–1877. It’s been reprinted umpteen times. It was originally assigned ISBN 0909640041. By about the ninth printing, there was a minuscule change to the text and, quite rightly, there was a new (but wrong!) ISBN: 0909640050X [sic]. But then the publisher got lazy. More printings were made, still including the minuscule change, but they obviously used an original plate or file and it went back, wrongly, to the first ISBN 0909640041. The book is so common that I quote it only as an example. Nevertheless, these are three “different” books and some collectors are so obsessive that they’ve just got to have them. All sellers love buyers like that.

I’ll add one more tale: there’s another highly collectable book with the ISBN on verso of title page. The ISBN also appears on the flap of the d/j but the publisher got it wrong: there were two different ISBNs. At some point during the print run, they fixed up the mistake. You’ll pay $250–$500 for a copy anyway but if you have the one with the errant ISBN on the d/j it will be $500–$750.

S.
Replied by straybooksoz on 25-Feb-2012 22:41 (Ref 2333722) Report
I think a part of the problem, castanets, with 13 digit ISBNs for older 1st editions, is that sites like Bookfinder quote both. Obviously whoever is giving them the information, or their algorithm converts the 10 to a 13.

I have books which don't have an ISBN or SSN, yet Bookfinder still manages to assign ISBNs to those editions.

I use what's on the book. Though I have had a few instances of run-of-the-mill pbs with different ISBNs on the back cover and title verso.
Replied by dbbooks on 05-Apr-2012 09:19 (Ref 2339160) Report
ISBNs are not a legal requirement.  However in Australia, if you produce a book you are required to send a free copy to the National Library in Canberra, and each state library either requires by law, or would like, a free copy too.

WA ceased the Legal Deposit requirement.  I don't know if it has been repealed yet (they were considering it) but they still 'politely request' a free copy, because if the law is repealed they will expect it to be retrospective.

Thorpe-Bowker is the ISBN agengy in Australia.  Here is their FAQs page.

http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/isbn/us/isbnqa.asp

HTH

db books
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