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Posted by missbonnielovesglitter on 26-Jan-2008 22:49 Report
how do you post perfumes?
how do sellers ship perfumes?

 

according to australia post's website - as perfumes are flammable they are classified as a dangerous good & therefore cannot be posted.

 

is there a way of getting permission from Australia Post to post perfumes?

 

there are 11 pages of perfumes for sale on oztion - how do those sellers manage this? 

 

 
 
Replied by tolstoyy on 26-Jan-2008 22:51 (Ref 968244) Report
Id love to know that too. ive been wanting to buy perfume since i joined but because of aus post rules im too scared to make that purchase and lose my money.
Replied by eclectica on 26-Jan-2008 22:51 (Ref 968245) Report
HI,

You can post perfume using a Dangeous Goods Contract. It will go by road and has to be packaged a certain way and declared.

Cheers
jeanette
Replied by jaynesworld05 on 26-Jan-2008 22:55 (Ref 968250) Report

Most people are breaking Australian Laws by doing this and my PO lady said the other day they are starting to crack down on this and handing out hefty fines. Unless you have the appropriate licence you are committing an offence by using the postal service.  Due to flamamble nature of the product.  Also many would not be aware you are not supposed to post batteries either.
Replied by eclectica on 26-Jan-2008 23:00 (Ref 968257) Report
Persons who send dangerous goods by air must ensure that they are properly packed, marked, labelled and declared. Those persons sending them are also required to be trained. The dangerous goods can only be lodged with freight forwarding companies or airlines.

There are a number of organisations that undertake a commercial packing service. Whilst the service may seem expensive, it is cheap when compared with the cost of obtaining the packaging materials and making several attempts to send the item whilst incurring fees with each failed attempt to send the goods.

Organisations considering sending dangerous goods on a more regular basis may be better off investing in training.

Some freight forwarding companies operate only airport-to-airport with dangerous goods; some will only carry for regular clients and are not “common carriers”.

Freight forwarders that will carry dangerous goods are:
Australian Air Express
DHL
TNT Express
Toll Priority
Virgin Blue Freight

Sending by Road

An obvious alternative to air is the road system. So long as bulk quantities are not involved; then there is little impediment to sending dangerous goods through a freight forwarder or courier; they will still require you to declare the item so that the driver can obey certain State-based legal requirements (such as where the goods must be stored in the vehicle and have a copy of the documentation located in the driver’s side door).

Caution

If you are considering sending dangerous goods by air and if the packaging, labelling, documentation etc does not meet the requirements of the Civil Aviation Legislation, then you may be liable to heavy financial penalties which can run into thousands of dollars and/or up to seven years in prison.

Australia Post have a legal policy of not accepting dangerous goods into the postal system. Lodging dangerous goods into the postal system can incur a penalty of up to ten years in prison and the goods may be destroyed.

Before sending any product that may be considered as dangerous goods, you should first seek advice from the appropriate air transport freight forwarder or airline operator and in the case of mailing the item you should first check with your local Australia Post office or agency.
Replied by mum2four on 26-Jan-2008 23:01 (Ref 968259) Report
I was actually just talking to the lady in my post office about this on Thursday, as I have some things to list that I wasn't sure about how to post.
She said that you have to get a " road transport only" sticker to put on the parcel and fill out a declaration of what the parcel contains.
Hope this helps.
 
It is actually really interesting when you read the brochure what you aren't allowed to post that many do. Magnets was one that I never knew, but you are not allowed to post any magnetised item. I wonder if this includes the magnetic jewellery
Replied by eclectica on 26-Jan-2008 23:04 (Ref 968265) Report
HI,

It is just like all the fakes being sold here there are always some sellers who do the wrong thing.

There are sellers here who ship perfumer properly. Just be wary of those who offer Express Post and/or do not state they cpmply with the Dangerous Goods lengialation.

Cheers
jeanette
Replied by tolstoyy on 26-Jan-2008 23:05 (Ref 968267) Report
OH WOW
that is interesting. something to keep in mind.
Replied by mum2four on 26-Jan-2008 23:15 (Ref 968274) Report
I just found the pamphlet she gave me. Some other things that sellers may not know about are:
 
 
oiled papers, instruments containing mercury ,toys etc. containing batteries ( batteries have to be removed from cell phones before posting)
Replied by eclectica on 26-Jan-2008 23:19 (Ref 968280) Report
Hi Mum2four,

Magnets are Dangerous Goods under the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations if when packed,they have a magnetic flux density of 0.159 A/m or more at a distance of 2.1 metres from any point on the surface of the package.

Fridge magnets, magentic jewllery, magnetic underlays etc wouold not usually fall into this category.

What your question does highlight is that the regulations are extremely complex and many people have absolutely no idea.

Jeanette
Replied by puddimoo on 26-Jan-2008 23:30 (Ref 968294) Report
I have personally never had problems with sending perfumes,and have spoken to the P.O.staff. I also send things overseas,with no problems,and every single one has arrived.....sad, that people are hesitating to buy perfumes,as I had to buy them all myself in the first place, and now the sales have really dropped due to fear of losing your money,(which I can understand),but it is  not dangerous sent by normal mail......just not express,which I personally never use,  puddimoo Shopping Spree 
Replied by mum2four on 26-Jan-2008 23:32 (Ref 968299) Report
puddimoo. It is not a case of buyers not wanting to lose their money. It is the fact that it is prohibited and illegal to send them in the post, and heavy penalties can be imposed if you are found to be not complying with AP's restrictions
Replied by eclectica on 26-Jan-2008 23:43 (Ref 968315) Report
HI,

Sighs .. this discussion crops up every now and then.

Just because some have done it 'successfully' does not alter the fact that it is illegal.

It is not that difficult to get a Dangerous Goods Contract with Australia Post. Just as it is not that difficult to check your facts with the appropriate authorities.

CASA is really cracking down and increasingly cargo is being screened. The penalities are very high if you are caught, never mind the fact that a multitude of goods are declared by IATA as Dangerous Goods for a reason!

Jeanette
Replied by wyldrose on 26-Jan-2008 23:49 (Ref 968316) Report

Wow, I never knew about the batteries. I recently sent a clock with AA battery inserted. I asked the woman at the PO if it would be ok because it was audibly ticking lol & I wondered if it would get me into trouble for that. But she just said if they had any queries they'd just unpack it & repack. But that it was unlikely to be a quiet enough environment for anyone along the way to hear. No mention of no batteries at all. It did get there fine too!
Replied by argyboyz on 27-Jan-2008 10:37 (Ref 968549) Report
Replied by eclectica on 26-Jan-2008 23:19 (Ref 968280) Report
Hi Mum2four,

Magnets are Dangerous Goods under the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations if when packed,they have a magnetic flux density of 0.159 A/m or more at a distance of 2.1 metres from any point on the surface of the package.

Fridge magnets, magentic jewllery, magnetic underlays etc wouold not usually fall into this category.
 The reason for this is it plays havoc with thier xray machines at the mail exchange! Not because it is dangerous!
Replied by thegoddess1960 on 27-Jan-2008 11:31 (Ref 968597) Report
does admin have any responsibility to ensure that the sellers of perfume here are compliant with the dangerous goods terms? one would think that if you sold perfume etc that you would get the compliance surely that would only benefit your sales? I would buy perfume etc ONLY from someone who is in compliance as I believe if they go to the trouble of getting it than quite possibly they will be more inclined to do the right thing by their buyers? yes? no?
Replied by beesboutique on 27-Jan-2008 11:51 (Ref 968618) Report
Not all perfumes come under the dangerous goods blanket. If they have a low flammable level then they are OK, it is only ones with the red symbol on the label which are covered.
Replied by mum2four on 27-Jan-2008 12:02 (Ref 968634) Report
I have the pamphlet right here in front of me, and it does not state anything about exceptions.
 
It is worded:
 
These dangerous goods must not be posted
 
Class 3 - Flammable liquids
Examples: aerosol products; perfume; alcohol; flammable solvents and cleaning compounds;flammable paint;flammable varnish removers and thinners etc. etc.
 
 
Replied by geoffwin on 27-Jan-2008 12:05 (Ref 968641) Report
Oztion have no responsibility, the contract is between the buyer and the seller
Replied by eclectica on 27-Jan-2008 12:31 (Ref 968666) Report
Hi geoffwin,

Interesting point really and Ebay used to take that line too until they had to deal with CASA.

They now prohibit businesses/sellers from utilising Australia Post services to send fragrances without a consumer commodities dangerous goods contract. They even encourage the reporting of sellers not doing the right thing.

Despite all the legal disclaimers one could argue that there is an obligation to provide accurate and authoritive guidleines in areas such as this, and to ensure that sellers are following them.




Cheers
Jeanette
Replied by thegoddess1960 on 27-Jan-2008 13:53 (Ref 968720) Report
oh another auction site I belong to the admin there wont let you sell perfume etc unless you can show your permit etc....I think it would be in the best interests of oztion admin if they implemented that as well yes? no?, I see it as being no different to having admin ask sellers who sell designer stuff to prove that it is indeed designer gear.......
Replied by beesboutique on 27-Jan-2008 13:59 (Ref 968723) Report
Class 3 - Flammable liquids
 
That is the point, it is only a flammable liquid if it has the symbol denoting that fact on the container. If it doesn't have it then it is not a flammable liquid so is no different from posting a bottle of tomato ketchup.
 
 
Replied by mum2four on 27-Jan-2008 14:02 (Ref 968725) Report
But doesn't perfume contain alcohol? I am not very aware on these things. I am only going by AP's pamphlet. You are not allowed to send to alcohol according to the pamphlet. I would guess that AP could class it as either.
I suppose the only way to know for sure would be to ask before you posted if it was allowed
Replied by roses1320 on 27-Jan-2008 14:34 (Ref 968766) Report
Hi there,
I had to ring head office at australia post as my local post office  stopped me sending my perfumes through regular post.  I spoke to a guy a from head office, he then looked into it further for me with his boss and they told me that I am allowed to post perfumes as it is not a huge alcohol content.  They told me that my post office has to accept my parcels and if I had any problems to call them and they will contact he post office themselves.
 
Kaylene
Replied by eclectica on 27-Jan-2008 15:11 (Ref 968799) Report
HI,

One problem is that differing Post Offices tell you different things, and people in Australia Post will contradict each other as well. There is in each state a person at Australia Post that can give you the correct information. You need to talk to the Dangerous Goods specialist.

I will state again it is illegal to send perfume by Post without a dangerous goods contract. And it is always illegal to ship by air except by specialized couriers who have Dangerous Goods Contracts. It is not a debatable point.

It is true that not all perfume falls into the Dangerous Goods Class 3.

However, without the Technical Data Sheet from the manufacturer you really do not know. And that assumes that you have the 920 odd page IATA 2008 Dangerous Goods Book to look it up and interpret it!

There are also quantity guidelines and exemptions based on quanity and size of actual container. 

It really is a complex area and in view of the difficulties with the process of interpretation and compliance there is a blanket rule by Australia Post that perfumes are considered Dangerous Goods..

Technical Data Sheets will list: (example in italics)
Appearance: liquid
Odour: odourless or apple fragrance
Boiling Point: 100C
Specific Gravity: 1.00 + 0.02
Vapour Pressure: 18mm Hg at 25oC
Solubility (Water): Completely soluble
pH: 6.5 + 0.5
Flashpoint: Not applicable
Ingredients with the
Chemical Name: Proportion: CAS Number
Olive oil: < 1%: 8001-25-0

As well as the UN Number, Hazchem Code, Dangerous Goods Class Label, Poisons Schedule.

This always causes debate and people give differing opinions however that is all they are, in most cases, opinions. The facts can be posted ad infinitum and people still want to debate the matter.

Personally I think it is time that Oztion showed some leadership and posted accurate and authoritive guide.

Cheers Jeanette
Replied by eclectica on 27-Jan-2008 15:33 (Ref 968821) Report
Hi argyboyz,

You are incorrect Australia Post is only following IATA guidleines.

It has nothing to do with X Ray machines at all!

And as stated earlier for most people it is not a problem as fridge magnets, magnetic jewellery etc does not fulfill the critera so is not a dangerous goods.

If you are intersted in the facts.

Magnets are defined as "Any material which, when packed for air transport, has a magnetic field strength of 0.159 A/m (0.002 Gauss) or more at a distance of 2.1 m (7 ft) from any point on the surface of the assembled package.'

They must be packaged according to Packing Instructions 902. According to this, Magnetized materials will be accepted only when:
(a) devices such as magnetrons and light meters have been packed so that the polarities of the individual units oppose one another;

(b) permanent magnets, where possible, have keeper bars installed;

(c) (1) does not exceed 0.418 A/m (0.00525 gauss), or

(c) (2) produces a magnetic compass deflection of 2 degrees or less.

Federal Aviation Regulations require that the employees packaging ANY dangerous goods articles (including magnets) are trained to package the dangerous goods articles. Training records must be maintained. Additionally, objective evidence is required to ascertain the effectiveness of training.

International Shipments
Magnets being shipped on an international flight MUST BE DECLARED AS A DANGEROUS GOODS ARTICLE (Dangerous goods declaration form must accompany the package). The boxes, after being packaged, must be checked for total field emission. If the field exceeds 0.002 gauss at 7 feet from the package (rotated 360° in both planes), follow packaging instructions 902 in the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulation. If the total field emission exceeds 0.00525 gauss at 15 feet from the package in any plane, the package cannot be accepted for air shipment. If the 0.00525 gauss requirement is met (the magnetic field emission is less than 0.00525 in any plane), you can ship the package by air on an international flight PROVIDED you fill the Dangerous Goods Declaration Form, and label the package appropriately. The package(s) must have the "Handling Label for Class 9 - Magnetized Material" label affixed on them.direction 902.


Cheers Jeanette
Replied by borntoshop on 27-Jan-2008 15:36 (Ref 968826) Report
Ok, I had sold perfumes in the past and heard it was illegal so I phoned the PO and was told it is illegal so I stopped selling them. Then I heard different, so phoned again and made certain I was eventually speaking to an employee with 'authority' (well as much as anyone can do on the phone).
 
He told me he would make absolutely certain and call me back -  and he did call back. He told me if the bottle said "flammable" or had the flame sign - cannot send without doing some paperwork. Nevertheless, never send express post.
 
I checked the perfume pkts and sure enough 2 had "Flammable" - one was White Diamonds, the other Karl Lagerfeld which has a caution on the box. Arpege has a symbol I wasn't sure of, but as I have 3 boxes it was worth looking into. I took it to my pharmicist who said alcohol content so low it's not dangerously flammmable (keep in mind there are no warnings whatsover on the boxes.  Even Chanel which I haven't listed have no warning, sign or anything else on the boxes.  
 
Now I stopped selling before and I don't sell volume perfume, it's occasional. So I have said - no express post. 
 
And that's what I know. I will call again however, and if I find out differently then I will of course cease again.
 
Hope this makes some sense, am rushing here.
 
          
 
  
Replied by raffi on 05-Jan-2011 15:53 (Ref 2253380) Report
I see this is an old thread now, but I only met with the issue yesterday at my local AP. Thanks to everyone for all the information you have provided - a lot to absorb.
Replied by magnolia134 on 06-Jan-2011 15:22 (Ref 2253852) Report
raffi - perfumes are OK to send by road. I used Temando road transport and all was fine.
Replied by puddimoo on 06-Jan-2011 20:38 (Ref 2253964) Report
 As Magnolia said, as long as they are sent via Road Transport they are ok.....may take an extra couple of days, but that is how it should be sent....Puddimoo
Replied by bitemycrankshaft on 06-Jan-2011 22:50 (Ref 2254019) Report
From what I have read on the subject... you just need to inform Temando that the parcel/package contains dangerous goods (unconfirmed information).

It should also be noted that you are NOT permitted under any circumstances to post perfumes via Australia Post without first entering into a contract with them... regardless of the postage method chosen.  The act of posting perfume in an AP pre-paid satchel would actually make you a common criminal.  


 
When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so
long at the closed door, we do not see the one which has opened for us.
Replied by kojigirl1 on 21-Jan-2011 01:36 (Ref 2260098) Report

If you want to send perfume via courier you need to obtain a Data Sheet that explains the content of the perfume. I rang an official distributor for a French perfume to obtain one and she told me (probably illadvisedly) to just send it via AP but label it as Skincare and at a very low value.  I did so and am now paranoid I'll get done for it!! But I think it is crazy!!!! How many people have perfume in their luggage when they travel?? How many poeple get duty free perfume and alcohol and take them on planes everyday??? All flammable, all containing alcohol.
The crazy thing is that I bought the perfume online from America, it was sent to me and I couldnt send it out of Australia to the person overseas that I bought it for!!
Replied by germanww2 on 21-Jan-2011 17:30 (Ref 2260296) Report
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