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Posted by aggiesattik on 24-Jul-2011 17:25 Report
Bulging Disc - any help appreciated
Hi everyone, 
5 weeks ago, I was getting spasms across my lower back & down one leg, saw a Gp & was told it was muscle strain - rest for a week or two, use a heat pack & nurofen gel.  I did this & seemed to feel much better after about a week so silly me, I went back to the gym and did my usual 1 hr cardio x 4 days a week.  2 weeks ago,  woke up with the same spasm pain across my back, couldnt walk properly & so saw another Gp.  Again, muscle strain, take anti-inflammatories & pain killers.  By the next day, I was in so much agony that I didnt bother with the GP surgery & went straight to the after hours clinic at our local hospital.  
I was sent for a CT scan and it has come back with this:

COMMENT:  Circumferential disc bulging with a more focal left paracentral subarticular component in the L4/L5 level which causes a mild impression of the thecal sac but does not appear to cause significant compression of the left L4 nerve root. However, the mild impression on the thecal sac could cause compression on the left L5 nerve root origin.

I am booked in for an MRI tomorrow & would love to hear from anyone who may have had a similiar problem.  I am pretty fit, 40 yo - bit of a gym junkie and am really missing my exercise. Both my mum & sister have suffered from the same problem over the last couple of years & ended up having surgery.  I am hoping to avoid this - I want to book in to see a specialised physio who can give me a programme and re- train the way I sit, move etc.  but I am getting worried as when I research on the internet, I am constantly finding blogs saying that most people never get back to full exercise esp not the gym, and that with a good percentage of people, the bulge can re-occur and get worse.

Continued -
 
Replied by aggiesattik on 24-Jul-2011 17:28 (Ref 2305312) Report
Sorry - my story is a bit long !!

I have a high pain tolerance & will only take medication every few days. I have stopped lifiting, I avoid overdoing things but I am still painting as I really need the income to cover my medical expenses - $350 just for the MRI tomorrow as I dont have private insurance. The pain is pretty bad, esp when bending & it is getting to me. I take meds when I need to get orders painted or to help me to sleep but try to avoid them when I have to drive or at home alone with my boys - just in case I had to drive somewhere, But I am not a fan of medication - I worked for a GP myself for 14 years and have seen how easy it is to become addicted esp to oxycontin - which is the medication I have been given so won't take it regularly, which is what I have been told to do. I can't tolerate codeine so most of the other painkillers just aren't suitable for me. Any advice, suggestions, help would really be appreciated - I am open to all ideas.

Kind regards, Ang.
Replied by jakenl10 on 24-Jul-2011 17:38 (Ref 2305315) Report
This is a really common injury, and a lot will depend on the severity of it.  There are lots of different ways to treat it, so I'd talk to your GP about seeing a back specialist, and a pain specialist and/or clinic, to help you cope.  Some seem to go away by themselves, but many hang around for up to years.  Posture and lifting techniques are important for reducing further damage and the pain.
Heat is good for short term pain relief - hot water bottle or similar.  A good, firm bed is also helpful.  If your bed is saggy, put a board in there under the mattress.

Best of luck!

Wendy  (a fellow sufferer)
Replied by yumyumdog on 24-Jul-2011 18:28 (Ref 2305321) Report
Yep, can match your complaint exactly!   L4L5, dead on, buldging disc, no fun is it?
Went to dr. prescribled strong pain killers, etc., etc.,
Went to Physcio, could not help me.
Went to Chrio.  arrr wonderful, it is the most common disc problem, Had to go 2 a week for the first 4-6 weeks, now after 3 years, only go once a month, they do a fantastic job, I was terrified the first time I went, was in so much pain, but so pleased that I went.
The only exercise I am allowed to do now, is to walk,  but after going through the talk of surgery or a wheel chair, I am pleased to follow their advice.
Go to a Chiro is my advice, and good luck, but unfortunately you will never get rid of it, just have to learn to live within your limits, I am not allowed to pick up anything heavier than 4 kg. etc. etc.
Can not sit at my sewing machine for more that 10 mins, Cannot vacume the floors, (hubby does it now) but not all that much pain either, so I will stick with the rules.
Good luck, lets know how you go please.
Replied by huonbrook on 24-Jul-2011 18:48 (Ref 2305323) Report
Pain clinic, then try things like aqua excercise, unfortunately the best relief is from pain medication, and doing very little good luck and best wishes.
Replied by sfx555chick on 25-Jul-2011 05:38 (Ref 2305379) Report
Hi - as someone else mentioned mine is a long story that started in 2005 -- and I can give you a history (edited as much as possible) up to 2011.

In early 2005 I was had continuous back & leg problems (on top of migraines and neck problems) -- I was seeing a chiropractor at the time.  I continued to have my back 'treated' but it seemed to get worse and worse, and yes I had an up to date set of x-rays at the time to diagnose my problem.

At this point I was unable to actually stand still, nor sit still (lets not talk about how little sleep I was able to get too) as the pain was continuous and I was doing everything and anything to help. Swimming, hot baths, spas (a Chinese doctor - versus western medicine,  even told me to WALK BACKWARDS up steps -- don't even ask how much that hurt), heat pads etc.  Finally at work my boss said, go see a specialist M-C and badgered me (I do tend to be one of those people who persist in pushing through pain -- which is the WORST thing to do with this kind of pain --- apparently LOL), to see a gentleman who was in fact a client at work, and a general GP and qualified back specialist as well; a kind of mutli trick pony, or well, you know medical practitioners. (I do tend to be a bit libelous when talking about doctors due to familial and friends history with the medical profession at large, BUT there are some fabulous one's out there, but you do need to find them).

He asked me lots of questions and did the most important test I had ,which moved me out of 'coping' to realising I 'must do something' mode . You know that funny little test where they hit you just under your knee with a little hammer (patellar reflex), well my right knee barely flickered and I had got to a point where my sensitivity in my right foot was severely diminished.

This was not good, apparently you were supposed to go ouch about the prickles on your feet, who knew?!. Immediate MRI's were booked along with ON THE SAME DAY as my appointment - cos my Doctor was no slouch and whilst an ageing English gentleman, extremely switched on, and booked me in to see a Neurosurgeon as well!!!

Rest of the story continued... M-C
Replied by sfx555chick on 25-Jul-2011 05:46 (Ref 2305381) Report
The long and the short of it was of course a substantial disc bulge, and yep at L4 & L5, to the extent that my sciatic nerve was starting to be compromised.

Alas the situation was complicated at the time by the fact that my 78 yo mother had recently undergone major surgery for an undiagnosed brain tumour (oh yep when it rains, it pours), and had immediately broken her hip after she had "recovered" from her not successful brain surgery (she never spoke to us again),  and we were basically waiting for her last breath.

I went to the neurosurgeon and within 1 week of 2 doctors visits was asked "what are you doing tomorrow", cos you need to have that operated on immediately!  Well it was a difficult decision but I had to wait until my mother had passed away before I could have the procedure.

Post procedure I was told most, but not all, of the disc bulge had been removed - they do a thing called a laminectomy (remove the lamina which is actually part of your spine)  so they can get at the disc, and then a discectomy - self explanatory.

Alas the disc material had attached to my sciatic nerve and could not be completely removed, well not unless I felt like walking again after the operation!

So, I spent 5 years having continuous 'procedures, trialling medications trying to find ANYTHING that wasn't hands full of pain killers (and yep I've had bouts of that but I always give myself at least 2 significant breaks in a year where I don't take any at all - and I'm not much fun to be around but it helps to flush out my kidneys cos a lot of them cause LOTS of damage inside.

Finally the best medication I have found is actually an anti-epileptic that works on the neuropathic pain -- another is gabapenten, but Lyrica (what I take) is actually more effective for me (but stronger); it's a kind of nerve blocker which is just what I need.

**sorry it's huge I know, but I really want to share this with you as a cautionary tale LOL **
Replied by sfx555chick on 25-Jul-2011 06:01 (Ref 2305382) Report
Whilst I do from time to time take a stronger dose, so I can travel as I still find the sitting down thing the most taxing on my back, it does cause all sorts of oedema (swelling of my feet and hands), definitely impacts my ability to concentrate -- just as well I'm completely unemployable now isn't it (this is why I love Quicksales btw)? And a few other side-effects besides, but I refuse to be house-bound and willingly suffer what I call 'chippolata' feet (I just buy bigger shoes LOL), so I can keep enjoying travelling and making my family repeat stuff to me as I forget it LOL!

So I've had injections into my spine, into my nerves, into the facet joints of my spine, been knocked out -- everytime they knock you out it takes 12 MONTHS for the medication to fully leave your system -- too many times in those years to willingly do it all again.  I might as well of handed my bank account (what was left of it) to someone on the street, as at least then someone would benefit from the money that I spent on scans, tests, drugs and needles.  That said I did have slight relief from the first nerve sleep root injections (basically all these things are cortisone which has it's own significant long-term downsides and that's what my father ended up dying from!), and so on, but only 50% of these procedures EVER WORK on anyone!  This is a statistic I found out when I did a Pain Management class (which I HIGHLY recommend).

So we're now in 2011 and I'm on painkillers as I'll never get rid of them, I take 150mg of Lyrica which is NOT covered by the National Health System, and 'comes down to' $80-ish a box of 48 when I use my Medicare card AND my private health insurance card which my husband spends a fortune on for me as we can't afford now to ever have me not privately insured. I'm not embarassed to say I'm on anti-depressants as the cause of long term pain is well documented, and I'm happy to take a little orange pill if it makes me able to feel like a useful human being and not get maudlin and upset about all the THINGS I CAN'T do, but pursue what I realistically can do when managed sensibly.

I just spent 7 weeks in the UK and Europe with my husband and 23 yo daughter and kept up - mostly - with them over 3150 miles driven in the UK, plus trains, coaches, planes stretching from Paris, Normandy France, Venice, Salzburg, Prague and back to London.  Yep, I needed about 3 weeks to recover when I got back but it's a price I'll gladly pay to still experience something I love so much; travelling.

(continued -- last one I promise)
Replied by sfx555chick on 25-Jul-2011 06:05 (Ref 2305383) Report
Yes I still push myself, but that's true of everybody when they are trying to complete some sort of goal or task and I'm stubborn enough to know that I do push myself too far, but then I have the satisfaction of whatever it is I've achieved. Plus you know, 2 days or so of not doing ANYTHING except reading, hot baths and heat packs and reading or not that bad really :-D. Bending is hard, lifting is harder, sitting is hard and occasionally impossible - so I lie down at home on an elegant chaise lounge I purchased to watch TV and read; and a few other simple adjustments I've made to my 'life'.

SO WHATEVER YOU DO..... DO NOT just 'let it go' (as I did), ignore it (as I did), , push through the pain (well okay I'm guilty of that still sometimes)--- as I'm a classic example of a cautionary tale of how 'leaving it' can cause so much more damage. I'm also keeping an eye on both S1, L1, L2 and L3 which all have some sort of  DEF-CON 1 or 2 as I call it in progress; apparently the factory send out a faulty model when they cobbled my spine together LOL!

So, finally I wish you good luck with getting it fixed -- many people very successfully have operations - especially fit people like yourself as your core muscles are probably in 'good nick' -- recover and continue back to full speed.... which I am sure you will. Oooh, and yes I sit now like I took a Miss Manners deportment class (although I've never been bad with my posture but have ridden motorcycles exclusively for years and that does have continuous bending over, plus worked on computer for 25 years plus too), and I spend good money on good quality shoes and avoid heels (well I always did that) like the plague, so a few body mechanic suggestions are another YES DO recommendation, and any good physio can give you suggestions on this - for instance I roll from my back (I used to sleep on my tummy, my bad), to my side, swing my feet to the floor and then leaver myself up when I get out of bed -- less chance of minimising the ouches too.

Good luck with it, and again I apologiwe for being so very wordy, but 6 years of extreme back history (I have had motorcycle accidents and rally car accidents as I've always been a bit of a wild 'hoyden' to use my mother's word; a wild child with an I can do that attitude, marching to her own beat and I first went to a Physio at 18 about my back and neck troubles) was hard to summarise and condense...Marie-Claude

PS. the side benefit of no longer working is of course that I've taken up some all encompassing hobbies, still get to play on my computer (I used to get paid for that), and can read to my heart's content, and I sell extensively online to give me an outlet for my two hobbies or reading and creating jewellery. 
Replied by suez_bitz on 25-Jul-2011 06:54 (Ref 2305393) Report
I have a L5/T1 problem. 

Normal exercise is off limits to me.  Ive been told to swim every 2nd day and also do  Pilates class.  Deep water Aqua is OK too.  Bit of a bummer when you love Body combat and Boxing.  Oh and I can use hand weights only (light ones) and none of the machines. 

Im an aerobic insturctor too which means Ive had to cut back on my teaching.  5 min warm ups and some demonstration is all im allowed.  I
 
also have to take Calcium with Vit D in them.  Im to have a review in 3 months (2 to go)
Replied by richbartim on 25-Jul-2011 08:59 (Ref 2305399) Report
My Son has a similar problem.
he has had a lot of time off work coz of this. so now he has had his job changed from permanent to casual he has been going through depression for years. I am going to C&P all of this in the hope he can find some info that might help him.
Replied by gypsycat on 25-Jul-2011 10:19 (Ref 2305406) Report
 I have 5 slipped discs on was on gabapentin high doses and endep. Then I found this natural product, works better than the normal meds and havent had any pain at all since I've been on it. Its called Sciatigon and they also give you a 100% money back guarnatee within 12 months if your not happy.

http://www.nativeremedies.com/products/sciatigon-soothe-sciatic-nerve.html
Replied by aggiesattik on 25-Jul-2011 12:26 (Ref 2305414) Report
Thanks everyone, esp sfx555chick.  I have to admit that my response to the reflex test in my right leg and ankle was not great either, which was a bit of a shock as I have been getting the sciatic pain down my left side.  

I think I need to hear some of these stories as you - sfx555chick - have described me perfectly.  Up to a couple of days ago, I was thinking that it would just be a couple of weeks of painkillers  & anti-inflammatories, a bit of physio and I would be back to normal.  I am one of those people who has always believed in 'pushing through the pain' and my GP thinks I have had this problem for at least 4 weeks, probably longer, and I cringe when I think of all the things I have done during that time at the gym such as standing bike sprints, rowing machine, lifting up to 35kg on the machines etc.  I have also been doing personal training sessions and have had to put them my gym membership on hold. I did this last week for 2 months, but am now thinking that it will be a lot longer before I may get back there.

My husband has been through stage 4 melanoma and had a radical neck dissectomy, including removal of his trapezius muscle, jugular vein and all lymph nodes on his left side.  He can't lift his arm up above his head and he is always in pain as the muscles have slowly wasted away in the surgery site and he gets spasms.  He needs incredibly strong medications to sleep at night and up to now, I havent wanted to complain about my problem as I know am I still a lot better of than what he is.  I don't want him having to do everything either as it does cause him pain.

Guess I will just have to wait for the MRI results after tonight. I have managed to get in to see a pain specialist on Friday as well, it was the only one who would take me - as I don't have health insurance - and even though I am not keen on the idea of stronger medications or an injection, will keep the appointment as I don't want to say no to the only specialist who will see me.  Another thing is up to now, I have been home during school holidays so haven't really had to drive or do much except relax.  The boys are back to school tomorrow and I will be back to my routine of 1 hr drop off in the morning and another in the afternoon. I think this may test my pain level as I won't be able to take any pain meds - I dont believe in mixing meds and driving. At least, I can borrow my hubby's automatic!

Cheers, Ang. 
Replied by remaynerecycled on 25-Jul-2011 15:04 (Ref 2305431) Report
mmm interesting. I had a bulging disk a few years ago and it was discovered that the disks are degenerating along with most of my major joints. They've put a lot of the pain down to osteoarthritis although I've been on the waiting list to get into the osteopathy clinic for over a year now. I did get to see a neuro who basically said there's not much they can do except give me stronger pain killers as I need them. After hearing this I promptly went off and celebrated by shattering my tail bone from falling down stone steps. Didn't help at all.

I also have constant sciatica in either one or both legs, it likes to shift, which gives me restless legs and cramps, especially when trying to sleep as I sleep on my side and put pressure on it. I can put up with pain but I find it exhausting so between sciatic insomnia and pain I often take nanna naps of an afternoon. Loss of feeling to feet and hands comes and goes which is really odd but much better than the pins and needles that used to occur instead.

Summer isn't too bad but Winter is horrible as the cold seems to make everything ache.
Replied by remaynerecycled on 25-Jul-2011 15:04 (Ref 2305432) Report
It drives me insane as I can't do anything that I used to do like weed a garden or clean a bathroom without pain for days afterwards. As one of the joints going is my right wrist and I've managed to yet again get tennis elbow in both elbows it's extremel limiting and frustrating. I've lost touch with a lot of people I used to visit regularly as I seem to be forever either catching up on what I'm meant to have done or be taking things slow to try and get everything back to working order. I cannot get up onto anything like a chair or ladder so haven't seen the tops of cupboards in ages. Cannot step down even a slight raise in the ground. Had to get into a storm water drain a week ago. About 2 foot down. I had to get on my knees, roll onto my butt and literally ski like a dog with worms off the edge then sit on the edge tp get out, roll onto my stomach and knees then wait for someone to stand next to me so I could use them to haul myself up to standing position lol. It's pathetic. I've noticed that in the last few weeks I've almost lost the ability to walk down even one or two steps off a porch without something to hang onto.

People don't seem capable of understanding that to keep going with things will actually make the situation worse and put you out of action for days if not weeks. It's not a situation where using joints or vertebrae that are already crumbling is going to make them suddenly start to heal themselves. It's going to make them wear out faster.

If one more person says "yes I get that but I just push through the pain and keep going" I might be up in front a jury for bodily harm at the very least.

Having said all of that, when I did my tailbone I had back spasms. I'd had them before but apparently only minor ones and they were bad enough. I've had major ones since but only every now and again and after having them for days constantly that's not so bad. I have no idea how people live with severe back spasms on a regular basis. They're the most painful thing I've ever experienced
Replied by aggiesattik on 25-Jul-2011 20:07 (Ref 2305487) Report
I know what you mean about the back spasms -  remaynerecycled.  These are what I have been getting and because it these, I have been loathe to get out and about.  I frighten the life out of my hubby and kids every time I get one as I either gasp or scream without any warning - and my poor boys - 13 & 6 - can't stand seeing me cry so I try to keep it in but its hard.

Guess I just have to wait and see what my results are.  Fingers crossed that it isn't too bad.
Replied by argyboyz on 25-Jul-2011 20:57 (Ref 2305497) Report
I suffered badly with similar, on headwarping meds for years, seen specialist who sent me for a caudal block, struggled into john hunter hospital on my walking cane and almost ran out of there in about an hour after the 5 minute procedure, now pain free, my only gripe i cant lift more than a few kilos anymore which has stopped me wanking, but otherwise its all good, lol.
cheers steve
Replied by aggiesattik on 26-Jul-2011 02:45 (Ref 2305543) Report
Lol- Steve.  I was against a pain specialist until a couple of days ago, but the more I have to move around, the worse the pain is, so maybe an injection is the way to go.  I am a pretty active person, so it is really doing my head in sitting around so if something can work and get me moving again, it will be worth it.

Found out that I will get my MRI results on Thursday, so will let everyone know how I go.  I also may have a physio already lined up - hubby works at a hospital and has contact with the head of the physio dept at our local hospital and she wants to have a look at my scans.  Very handy as I might be able to get straight in for treatment and it is only 5 mins away.
Replied by koolkatzonline on 26-Jul-2011 20:30 (Ref 2305659) Report

hi everyone,
I have thoracic scoliosis to the left, damaged L2/L3 with osteophytes and damaged T5/T6. my pain never stops. I also get slight paralysis in my hands and legs. I'm in pain when I sit, stand, walk, bend. I've had back trouble 10 years, mines been bad the last 2 years. don't know if I've got any bulging discs haven't had any MRI or scans only xrays. i'm getting used to the pain. I wear back brace

Penny
Replied by aggiesattik on 26-Jul-2011 20:51 (Ref 2305661) Report
Hi Penny,   it would be interesting to know if you did have a bulging disc.  It is more common than I thought and apparently, quite a few people can have one without symptoms until they aggravate it.  I also have scoliosis - but never really thought much about it except that it never has allowed me to wear jeans nicely with a belt - they always sag at the back - LOL!

But when I had my MRI last night, the radiographer did make a comment on the extent of my scoliosis so it must be quite bad.  

How do you find the back brace?  I have had one of these suggested to me.

Cheers, Ang.
Replied by remaynerecycled on 27-Jul-2011 22:20 (Ref 2305784) Report
I thought bulging disks healed up but it was the underlying disk damage that caused the havoc?
Replied by aggiesattik on 28-Jul-2011 04:41 (Ref 2305806) Report
Hi  remaynerecycled - thats right.  From what I have been told, a bulging disc can sometimes heal either itself over time or with treatment. If the bulge tears then it becomes a herniated disc or it can leak further and be a disc rupture.  I get my results tomorrow - oops today now - so will finally know if it is worse than just a bulge.

I think the problem is that a lot of people either don't get the right treatment, have other underlying problems or keep aggravating the disc so it doesn't heal properly. I have been doing everything I have been told for the last 2 weeks and since posting this message, have just cancelled my pain specialist appt this Friday as I don't believe that I need it any more.  I find that the pain is the best way to tell if I am over doing things as I can feel my back tighten up.  I am lucky though as I already had good core muscles from all my gym work and think this has really helped me.  My mum is a person who has never exercised in her life and is overweight, started off with exactly the same condition as me but even though she rested and took anti-inflammatories, it never healed properly and she ended up having surgery - twice.  She is no better off at present though as she hasn't had the proper rehab physio since her 2nd surgery, is in chronic pain and doesnt know why but I believe it is because she is not moving around and the scar tissue is tightening up.  She also hasn't lost any weight since the surgery and the extra load would certainly not help things either.

I am not quite so worried now as I was a few days ago - all I got from people that I spoke to was being told that I would never be back to my old self, never be back at the gym etc etc but have actually spoken to the husband of a friend yesterday who is a policeman, did exactly the same thing twice, had surgery and is now back at work and the gym post op and apart from lightening and slightly adjusting his exerice routine, is again running, using the weight machines and elliptical.  If I can get back to that and be able to garden again, I will be very happy!

ps.  just need to be able to sleep at  night now - can't get more than a couple of hours total as I wake with pain every time I move - I am also getting restless legs!  The meds don't work - they seem to keep my awake as well.

Replied by koolkatzonline on 18-Mar-2012 22:54 (Ref 2336441) Report

I may have a bulging disc, I don't know. I have a large swellling at the bottom of my spine as well

Penny

 
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